Martha Plimpton has a distinctive voice in American Indie film: voluble and strident, sacrastic but warm, mostl recently blasting its way through 200 Cigarettes and John Waters' Pecker ("No teabagging!"). Plimpton grew up a Gen X posterchild- the smart, cool, funny-faced girl paired with heartthrobs like Keannu and River. Now 28 and the veteran of over 30 movies, Plimpton remains a true indie girl. She'd rather act in plays at Chicago's Steppenwolf Theatre than in a Hollywood blockbuster and is an active participant in the Sundance Lab, a program for aspiring directors to make short films with renowned actors. *surface arranged for a phone conversation between Plimpton in New York and another idiosyncratic voice from indie film, that of actress Amanda Plummer, in LA. With a sing-song witchypoo whisper, Plummer eagerly agreed to play journalist, and quiz her colleague on topics ranging from the film industry to modern feminity. A time was arranged that fit into Plimpton's hyper-self-organized schedule, and that was late enough in the West Coast morning for Plummer to "arrive home from sleep." The blonde bombshells got it together, seized control of *surface's suggested questions, and openly debunked the celebrity interview for our pages.
Amanda Plummer, [with girlish naughtiness]: *surface gave me a list of questions. Martha Plimpton, (squaking conspiratorially): Are they good questions? Yeah, they're good. They're interesting...if you're in the mood. I want to catch up with you before we start. You went to Cannes with what move? 8 1/2 Women. What's it like to work with Peter Greenaway? Oh! It was great. Really" Because I find his films very difficult to watch. [softly] Yeah? And I've always been curious about what kind of director he is to work with. He's a visual director. It's like working with a great painter, and you're the colors. And the struggle going through that, as you can imagine Van Gogh with his strokes. I mean, it's a living, breathing experience. So he makes you excited to sort of turn yourself inside-out for him? 'Cause it seems like he requires that from his actors. He's always putting people in these very bizarre situations. It's really up to the actors how they walk away from this experience, whether they've been able to unravel some veneers. There are many directors who are afraid to upset an actor, much to their detriment, I think. Where do you think that perception of actors that they are...I think it comes from the fact that it's the only job on a movie set where nobody has to know how to do it. Everyone has to know how the camera works. Everyone has to know what the gaffers job is. It's all required. But the actor's job isseen as this sort of mysterious world where only these very special, insulated people are allowed to tread. We're sort of pampered, we're treated like children. Because there's no understanding that it's a technique and a craft, like any other job on a set. And not that it's not special, and not that it doesn't require a certain amount of alchemy. [wistfully] Oh, God, yeah! But still, you gotta know what incantations to utilize to turn that rock into gold. It should be just as simple as saying, you know, "I need a 10K over in this corner." Here's a question: "What role does celebrity persona play in the casting..." Oy vay! Oy, God...I wish they hadn't put that question in there! Well, we'll scratch it, if you don't want to approach it. It's just going to make me sound angry. There you go. I'm trying so hard not to turn myself into a bitter...I think a little bit of anger is good. I really do. I think it's galvanizing. It's mobilizing, it can spur you to action. It's just so easy to fall into that trap. It feels, at the moment, so nourishing, like it's taking care of you and protecting you, that rage. But it's not. But it's not, it's just turning me inside out. Bulls-eye! God, you massive woman, you! If you don't like something, you can't just bitch. It's like a golden rule that you don't do that. Believe me though, I've done it! [sheepishly] You don't do that. I've done it! [Amanda laughs] Oh God, yes. I can't tell you how many times I've done it. It is definitely not in my nature to be wise and forgiving. Really not my reflex or my instinct at all. Oh, here we go: "How has the media fucked with your image or presented you in a certain way in the past?" Do you care? I blame myself when I do an interview and I come out sounding like either a bilious, angry fool or a sappy, simpy idiot. Or someone who has no opinion at all. Even though I know that people will point out whatever angle they need to, regardless of what I say, I always blame myself because I feel like I've given someone an 'in.' For some reason I like to expose myself, which is not healthy in the context of the publicity interview. It's damaging, because it always gives someone the opportunity to fuck with you. It's like a drop of blood in some piranha infested waters. And it comes from some weird need to have people understand me and like me, find me interesting. Respond to me." I think it's a dynamic that exists between people in the first place when they've just met. There's a great deal of projection. It's like another skill: how to talk without really talking. And that bites. I don't know about you, but it really leaves a bad tase in my mouth. And the thing to remember also, when I enter that world of "understand me, love me, care about me," is nobody gives a shit about my weaknesses or my desires or my feelings, you know. Nobody cares. People are attracted to winners. I just had the most pathetic audition the other day, where they didn't want to audition me, and finally they were persuaded to audition me for this part that I was totally wrong for. And I was frustrated by this. Even going in was just humiliation because I knew what it was about. And I had this notion that I was going to tackle the situation by reading the scene, and then saying something like, "Look, I know and you know that I'm here as a favor and I want you to know that I appreciate it. We both know that I'm not right for this part. Truth is, I think I'm really right for this other part. And regardless of whether this makes any difference to you, I will sleep better tonight knowing that I came in and told you that if you hire me, you will not be disappointed." And that was my- in my mind, trying to sleep the night before the audition, keeping me up 'til 4am- way of approaching this from a professional, honest, decent, non-bullshit kind of way. And I went in for this audition and I just couldn't stop apologizing. I was just like a babbling...They looked at me like I just got out of Bellvue. I mean, they really looked at me like I was crazy. You know, I honestly believe what they're looking for is not an actor, not even a person. What they're looking for is an attitude. People want you to exhibit strength- a winner, narcissim, in love with yourself, a level of confidence that exceeds everything else. Nowadays, vulnerability is considered a weakness. Yes it is. It's really a strength. You have a strength. It's what keeps you curious. It's what keeps you questioning yourself and others. Not to be competitive, but to be better at what you do according to your standards. And there's a part of me that admires that ability in movie stars. To have no compunction with being utterly in love with yourself, no shame. "Yeah, I love myself, I am the greatest. I am the sexiest. I am the most beautiful. So what? What are you going to do about it?" It's like Caesar or something, you know? That's a full-time job. Only a handful can do that and not have the job of the "star" affect their work [as an actor]. It's like a genius gene. Or like a beauty gene, or something. There's only one Freud. We can't all come up with the theory of relativity, like Einstein. And the acceptance of that reality is incredibly important, because it means the end of hating myself for not being that. I can say, "Hey-man, I'm not going to be the one writing down the theory on this one." It's incredibly disappointing, because you look at yourself and go, "Shit, I guess I'm not what I thought I was." But once you can get over that, it can be incredibly freeing. The pressure's off kind of thing. Okay, next question: Mmmmm, let's see. "How is theater relevant in the ageof mass communications?" Oh my God! That's like asking, "What's the relevance of reading when you can just watch the movie?" It's more important in this age than it ever was! Because it's the last vestige of intimacy in dramatic aart. It's even more valuable than when the fucking Elizabethans did it. And also, I think actors require some type of theater experience today. It has become increasingly difficult for me to want to go to the movies, because I know what to expect. I know the kind of acting I'm going to see. It's like taking a lover and being disappointed. Yeah. His imagination was rather lacking. Right, exactly. It's like finding that this beautiful Adonis can't last more than three minutes. And it's not including you. Doesn't need you at all. [laughs] Exactly. They're acting alone. This is what I have felt myself, that I, as the audience, am not involved in an interaction. Hollywood is probably the only industry that doesn't have quality control. I mean, toilet paper industries have quality control. You know what I mean? So, why would acting matter at all in that equation? Where would that have any value? Who would want to invest in something you can't touch? So, the theater is, without question, the place where an anctor can remember why it is they do what they do. Who it's for, what it's about, what its function is socially, culturally. That's where acting becomes valuable. The next question: "...strong females..." [pauses] Oh. What did it say about strong females? I want to know what that was. Okay, okay, okay. This is a question I pounce on like a lion on a cow. "As strong female role models, is it possible to posit a new definition of femininity?" Strong female role models- now, this is tricky, isn't it? Very. Because, on the one hand I would say the last thing we need is strong female role models in this industry. I'm tired of seeing strong females. I'd like to see some females with some depth. Bulls-eye! As if a strong female waves a dick. Or as if a strong female is more interesting than a weak female. The perfect example is a review in The New Yorker that I read. It was this movie starring two actresses who are very well-known and very capable, in these supposedly strong female roles. And the reviewer used a sentence like, "This film is utilizing the talents of two actresses with extremely powerful but expendable careers." And I thought, 'My god, that totally hits it on the head.' They are powerful, they are strong women, as the phrase goes, and they are utterly replaceable. There is nothing here that we can't get somewhere else. The motivation for these characters is specious in nature and shallow, and yet they're showing their womanhood..."you go girl." It's like a theft of character conscious. So it's replaceable. I think there is a growing awareness in the public to grey areasthat have been overlooked in books and television and movies. There is a growing fidgetiness. You go to a movie, and they're coming up with the next line and saying it out loud. It's just the writer and the director and the producer...it's their lack of reflection. Their lack of moving with the people. And the people are getting restless. Especially considering they just spent $15 to sit there and eat their popcorn. There's no denying that movie theaters make their money on concessions. And movies will always be a business tailored around the product. It's a business. A splendid business. It's like the greastest gambling casino in the world. I love this business. You learn something all the time. [Amanda mumbles over questions.] What have got? "What's the last thing you think about before you fall asleep?" Oh God. [Dreamily,] "What are your dreams?" Uh-huh. Let's see...The other night I woke up in a cold sweat having a dream that I was being executed by lethal injection by a very friendly nurse. And I kept entreating her not to kill me. And she just had this very sweet but very neutral attitude. "Sorry, I gotta kill you." It was one of those dreams [where] you know that you're dreaming. And I had this [subconscious] belief that if I died in the dream I really would die. And I had this choice, because I knew if I continued to sleep my death was just inevitable. Oh, wow. And I was being executed for a real reason. It wasn't like some great injustice had been done to me. Wooow. So, I had this moral dilemma in my sort-of-conscious mind. "Do I go through the inevitable and bravely walk through that door and die? Or do I run away and wake myself up, knowing that I will never know what death is truly like? And I could feel the drug was taking effect and killing me. Oh my god! That is beautiful. "Oh my God, I have to make a choice now. Will I be a coward if I choose to wake myself up?" And my brain couldn't deal with the choice and I forced myself, with great difficulty, even though it took a nanosecond, to wake myself up. It was a very strange dream. And what I think it is- it's the anger we were talking about- choosing to let yourself get swallowed up, or realizing that you are not Einstein, and letting that go and not fighting it anymore. Is that the death that is represented in this dream? Letting go of this thing I've had for 28 years? "Golden Child, going to succeed, brilliant futre." You know the choice is mine. Aren't those dreams...don't they make you live? Yeah. It's like a course changer. It's like someone pulled the lever on the tracks and we're going in another direction.

The article is accompanied by color fashion photos of a model in a black sleeveless dress and a model with the wind blowing a black scarf over her face while wearing a strapless black gown.